Inside an Insightful Mind: An Interview with Dr. Doug Risner
By Camryn Eaglin
Dr. Doug Risner is an accomplished, well-respected dance educator and scholar. With a focus in dance education, his research and practice is etched in humanizing dance pedagogy. From his extensive research throughout his Masters and Doctoral studies, to publishing his first book “Stigma and Perseverance in the Lives of Boys Who Dance” in 2009, he places a critical lens on traditional dance pedagogies and aims to unearth inhumane teaching practices. He always asks his students two valuable questions: What kind of teacher do you want to become? and, What does it mean to be responsible for someone else’s learning?
When you see someone with such an extensive and successful career, you wonder–how did they get here? Dr. Risner gave me some insight into his personal journey.
The Early Years
For professionals in a field they're passionate about, it’s common for them to trace back to a moment, a feeling, or a person who ignited that initial flame. For Dr. Risner, that was his 1st grade teacher Mrs. Shaffer. She was sure to amplify her students' strengths without emphasizing their "shortcomings." He took inspiration from her and from these moments. Dr. Risner had an interest in teaching, to the point where he would play school with his neighborhood friends, and he of course would act as the teacher. This all left a lasting impact on Dr. Risner. His passion for dancing would blossom soon after, and although his path wasn’t completely linear, the dots would later reconnect.
Camryn Eaglin (CE): At what point in your life did you find a serious interest in dance teaching and education?
Doug Risner (DR): I started taking dance “lessons” when I was in second grade. My mom put me in tap dance classes because I was a chubby 7-year old, and she thought tap dance would help me lose weight. Yet, my very first dance teacher, Phyllis Liles, saw my potential and always supported me in positive ways, never negative or demeaning. She taught me to always do my best, never give up, and to work hard.
At the same time, I also remember being only one of two boys who took dance lessons, and I wondered why that was. Dancing was physical, challenging, and took lots of practice and fortitude. Why don’t more boys dance? It’s a question I’ve been asking in my research and scholarship for over 20 years, and is the subject of one of my most recent books, Masculinity, Intersectionality & Identity: Why Boys (Don’t) Dance (Palgrave MacMillan, 2022).
I was also drawn to teaching and studying how to teach because I struggled early in my career with dance teachers who taught from traditional, authoritarian, banking-method dance pedagogies. I wanted to find and develop ways to significantly counteract the negative deficiency model which focuses on what the dance student can’t do.
CE: How did you get your start in Academia earlier on?
DR: My early experiences of academia were quite rough. I went to Miami University in Ohio right out of high school as a pre-medicine major. I thought I wanted to be a medical doctor in large part because my father died from cancer when I was only 10 years old. I wanted to give back in some way so that others might not have to go through what I did. But after two years of college, the required pre-med coursework was over my head. So I dropped out. Although I had started dance lessons when I was a young boy, dance was not something males took as a major in the late 1970s. So I worked in department store retail and continued to study dance and perform in musical theater productions for a number of years.
In 1981, I met a male dancer in a production who was auditioning for Point Park College and asked me if I wanted to audition too. So I did and got accepted. I completed a year there, but tuition was beyond my means to continue, and honestly, I never felt that I fit into the highly competitive conservatory setting. By 1984, I was teaching at the School of Pittsburgh Ballet Theater and had become a father. I was 25 years old with a family to support. I knew that to survive I needed to get my undergraduate degree in dance (BFA, 1988) and move right into a graduate program (MFA, 1991), which I did, both at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro (UNCG). Other than becoming a father, it’s probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.
In the Thick of Academia
Dr. Risner knew he wanted to continue his higher education journey. Once he graduated with his MFA, he began what would be a 37-year in higher education dance. His teaching endeavors flourished in college dance departments, and this is where Dr. Risner developed, explored, and crafted his own personal pedagogy and teaching methods, which were heavily influenced by his personal experiences and education. His earliest university teaching experiences focused on technique, choreography, community outreach, and repertory for undergraduate and graduate students.
CE: What did your career look like the first few years after earning your MFA in Dance?
DR: With my MFA in Choreography and Performance completed in 1991, I was appointed Assistant Professor of Dance at Luther College, a small liberal arts college, with an active and vibrant theater and dance department. I had published two academic journal publications based on research I had conducted for my MFA written thesis, “Dancers in the Rehearsal Process: An Interpretive Inquiry.” At the time, MFA grad students at UNCG were required to complete both a written scholarly thesis and original choreography for a shared dance concert with another MFA grad student. I am so fortunate and grateful that scholarly research was such an important, required component of the MFA in Dance at UNCG.
CE: Many creatives express a difficult time choosing their higher education path. How did you later decide on a PhD in Curriculum and Teaching?
DR: There was so much more I wanted to learn about research design and methods. I also had a strong desire to address some of the most troubling challenges and issues confronting dancers, dance educators, and the field of dance education. Although I had been promoted to associate professor with tenure at Luther College, I resigned my position in 1998 and returned to UNCG for a PhD in Curriculum and Teaching. I was 40 years old and back in school, again. And I loved every minute of it.
CE: You’re currently the Director of the Master of Arts in Theater & Dance Teaching Artistry at Wayne State University in Detroit. How did this program come about, and what do graduate students in the program gain from their studies?
DR: Fast forward a decade, along with my Wayne State theater faculty colleague Mary Elizabeth Anderson–also a teaching artist for many years–we conducted a mixed-method qualitative dominant research study of dance and theater teaching artists (n=172). With so little published literature on dance and theater teaching artists at that time, the three-year study’s findings contributed significantly to the curriculum design and course development for the MA in Teaching Artistry program. The study’s description and findings were published as part of our book, Hybrid Lives of Teaching Artists in Dance & Theater Arts (2014).
What we learned from working teaching artists shaped nearly all aspects of the program’s design and format. First, it was clear that the MA program needed to be available in a fully online format–the majority of TAs told us they would be unable to relocate or uproot their families. Second, they made clear that continuing their current teaching artist employment while pursuing a master’s degree was a high priority. Third, they wanted options for internships and fieldwork experiences in their area as part of the program. We designed the program to meet each of these needs. In addition, Mary and I were committed to creating a culture of community, collegiality, and collaboration, especially given the challenges some students experience in online courses and programs.
The Master of Arts in Theater and Dance - Teaching Artistry admitted its first cohort in 2016. Our fourth cohort will begin this Fall 2022, and it’s one of the most diverse and talented so far.
The Exploration & Research
CE: What goes into your process on deciding what to write about and research in depth, specifically in dance pedagogy?
DR: My process for identifying issues in dance pedagogy has often focused upon dehumane teaching approaches and practices–many of which I experienced as a young dancer.
As I wrote two decades ago in “Rehearsing Heterosexuality: 'Unspoken' Truths in Dance Education” (Dance Research Journal, 2002):
“I believe the overarching problem centers on the dehumanizing effects of traditional dance pedagogies and the ways in which ignoring these issues cultivates further dehumanization in dance education. Unless we diligently critique the ways in which we were taught, trained, and treated, we frequently manufacture exact pedagogical replicas. Moreover, from a very early age, students are the unwitting beneficiaries of this process. “
Seldom receiving the attention that could adequately prepare dance educators to confront these critical issues, the profession frequently waits until a crisis develops in our programs or schools. We then stumble, struggle, and fumble through territory we often know little about, for which we have no preparation and, worse, lack the technical skills to be responsive. Twenty years later, we find ourselves in similar situations, exacerbated by COVID-19 and widespread asynchronous learning.
CE: You’ve written hundreds of papers, journal articles and chapters. After an extensive writing career, how do you find new topics you’re passionate about researching and writing?
DR: That’s a great question. Because I’ve been researching, writing and publishing for so long, finding new topics that really interest me is an ongoing, organic process that never stops. I’m thinking about new projects all the time, especially those that excite me– what I have questions about and want to learn more– and what the profession needs to learn, know, and address.
My book projects, often edited volumes, are time consuming and require mentoring and managing numerous contributing authors. Because edited volumes– at least for me– take about three years to produce, I’m also working on a number of journal articles and chapters for other books simultaneously. To remain engaged in each of these ongoing projects means I have to be deeply passionate and committed to the topics I pursue.
My passion also comes from collaborating with other researchers and scholars whose work I admire and respect. After I published my first book, Stigma and Perseverance in the Lives of Boys Who Dance (2009), I swore I would never write a book by myself again. Collaboration, on the other hand, requires listening, responding and supporting others; all of which provide meaningful opportunities for learning, understanding and questioning. Most of my work over the past decade or so has been collaborative.
Words of Wisdom
CE: Out of some of your distinguished pieces, which one are you most proud of and hope more dancers and educators would read?
DR: This is a tough one to answer. It’s like asking, “Which of your children are you most proud of?” My next book, Dancing Mind, Minding Dance: Socially Relevant and Personally Resonant Dance Education (Routledge, 2023), is a retrospective volume of 17 articles published from 1992-2022. The book comprises both pivotal works cited frequently by other scholars and articles that are no longer available or difficult to find. It is organized in five sections:
- Dancing Making Pedagogies;
- Dance Curriculum and Teaching;
- Dance Teaching Artists;
- Dance, Gender and Sexual Identity; and
- Social Justice and Humanizing Dance Pedagogy.
The book provides readers a 30-year perspective of my scholarship and research studies. Although I’m unable to say which article I’m most proud of, I know there’s something for everyone in this collection. Dancing Mind, Minding Dance is scheduled for publication in February 2023.
CE: It’s important for artists to understand there are many aspects of dance to be involved in other than performing. What advice would you give them to help find their niche in the dance field?
DR: Excellent question, thank you for asking. It’s vital to help dance students understand and embrace that a career in dance doesn’t necessarily mean one career. Careers I have had over my lifetime are one example: I was a professional dancer, technique teacher, choreographer, teaching artist, dance professor, dance department chair, and scholar/researcher. Also research shows that nearly 70% of undergraduate students with degrees in dance earn most of their income from teaching dance.
I encourage undergraduate dance majors to pursue their interests in dance while also taking courses that prepare them for dance-related careers, as well as courses of interest outside of dance. As you know at Wayne State, I designed and teach the course Introduction to Dance Professions, in which students explore their interests and aptitudes in a variety of careers such as: Dance Arts Administration; Dance Production & Technology; Dance Teaching in P-12 Schools; Private Dance Studios & Commercial Dance; Dance Science & Somatic Education; Dance in Higher Education; Dance Writing, Journalism & Criticism; and Dance in Community & Alternative Settings. Personally, I think it would be unethical not to provide this level of career knowledge and possibilities, or promote students' exploration of interests beyond performance.
CE: How can young dance scholars confidently conduct research and find their area of expertise in the dance writing field?
DR: Based on my experiences, there are a number of ways young dance scholars can build their research knowledge and self-confidence. A considerable part of confidence that’s necessary to conduct quality research is experience and deep exposure to research design and research methods. Oftentimes this comes through research coursework. Another important part of researcher confidence is learning by example–whether that occurs through a working relationship with a research/faculty mentor, a faculty researcher, or other professional scholar/writer, or reading research-based articles in the discipline. A third component of conducting research is learning by doing, practice –that is, the more you do something, the better you get at it–just by human nature.
The latter requires curiosity, introspection, and reflection. What is it you want to know/learn more about that others in your field need or deserve to know? In other words, your research needs to be both professionally relevant (to the field) and personally resonant (to you).
Camryn Eaglin is a professional dancer, freelance writer, dance teacher, and creative. Eaglin recently graduated summa cum laude from Wayne State University in Detroit, where she earned a Bachelor of Science in Dance with a minor in Broadcast Journalism.